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| photo by Shane Bugbee (left) |
Shane: Who's George?
Me: George is a homeless guy that I'm friends with, him and his girlfriend.
Shane: You're friends with him and his girlfriend, you said?
Me: Yeah-
Shane: Okay.
Me:-and last night we were driving around. He must have left that in there.
Shane: Good old George. It's nice you're friends with homeless people. Where do they live?
Me: They live in a really cool wash. Like they got a whole tunnel to themselves.
Shane: Oh, wow. And you've seen it?
Me: Yeah, it was there this morning.
Shane: Have you taken pictures?
Me: I have not, I've only been there twice.
Shane: Are you going to?
Me: I might, if they want me.
Shane: Do you record?
Me: I think I recorded something with them once. I'm trying not to because they're pretty convinced they're being gang stalked, so I don't want to make them paranoid.
Shane: I see. Do they know you recorded?
Me: No, not the most.
Shane: Yeah, of course. I would do the same. It's not bad, it's cool. It's cool. It's cool to document your shit for your own... publishing it's a different thing. You know, sometimes when you record people and they don't know, that's a little, that crosses a line, but who cares about that sometimes too, but recording it for your notes for if you're writing about it or something, I don't think that's a bad thing. Does that make sense?
Me: Yeah. No, I think if you do it when they don't you get more out of it
Shane: You get more out of it?
Me: Yeah, because if you do it when people know, then they have a, they like to appear better than they actually are.
Shane: Green, green arrow. Yeah. Big bad, bad. Oh, they're definitely going to hide things. That's, of course, that's absolutely it. That's what the same with filming. This is a real cool car. It's a nice car. I see what you mean about shocks though.
Me: Yeah.
Shane: Is this a new car?
Me: 12 years old.
Shane: Okay. I can see now why the shocks are like that. Well, maybe you'll get new shocks someday.
Me: Who knows? Someday.
Shane: Amazing. In Claudia's car, it brings it all to life? It's really surreal that brings internet stuff to life.
Me: 4 years
Shane: 4 years what? I mean, I can tell. Oh, this?
Me: Yeah, exactly.
Shane: Oh, you guys were talking about that? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's exactly it. It's a very surreal. It's strange. It's a, it's cool. Well, it's like, I've known you for like, it's also like not weird because it's like, I feel comfortable around you. Like you're not a stranger. Even though I've never met you in person. So did you ever meet David in person?
Me: I did not. Um, there's the open option if we're ever in the same area. He did good for good for them. Yeah. It just was, it's a fun one.
Shane: Fun, fun time, time, I guess for you for that. That moment was fun for me. thought it was?
Me: Yeah. I thought it was fun though. I didn't really consider that. Yeah.
Shane: The whole thing was weird. For me, to be honest though, you know, it was definitely a, uh, we, uh, one of my weakest points in my life and it was hard to even think about talking to someone like yourself, a person, anyone about, you know, serious stuff like that. And I thought you guys were almost like, still not sure if you weren't trying to harass me with that 24 hour stuff, but it seemed like you were genuine that you really liked it. Or you said you listened to it 18 times or something. Yeah. So I believed you. I was telling that to Jes like that greatest. Are we almost there? Yeah, it feels like that. It looks like the area. I was like, you had smart questions and all that stuff. So it was just like a real weird moment in my life. But what I'm most grateful for, I'm grateful for your friendship or something like that. You know, I think that we're friends.
Me: I think so.
Shane: I'm grateful for your contribution to that book, the Satanic Temple book, because it turned out very honest. And the person I was working with was, was, was, uh, less than honest. And you helped push it in this direction that when I look at it, I'm proud of it. Look at the first version. I'm not. When I look at the first version, I'm like, oh man, I'm really pissed off about this.So as an artist, I would hate to have that on my conscience. Like, man, I have this, this thing I did and it sucks. I hate it. And I have a, I have that, you know, like in a lot of aspects, artwork is always like that. You look back and you're like, I don't give a fuck about that. Fuck that shit. But, um, you know, I don't care. I can do better. That's ugly. Or that sucks. That happens a lot with artwork. that's it. No, it's next street. Or, or did you pass it? Okay. You must've passed it. I think it comes up quick. But, and I didn't know this when you were pushing this stuff or helping out with it. But when I look back on the book now, like I was going to release the, I was going to let the PDF go for this well purchase. I was going to put it up for free download. No. Oh yeah. Why not? I'll probably do it when I get home, not on April 30th, 30th, but it's, it's been long enough. I don't even know if it sells much anymore, but it doesn't matter. The damage has been done to them. Man, it worked. Don't you think?
Me: I haven't heard anything out of them.
Shane: Right.
Me: Last I heard was the thing that the picture Doug did with the guy-
Shane: This is it. What'd he do?
Me: Uh, some atheist guy.
Shane: Park right here.Yeah. Right, right up in here is a good parking spot or anywhere up. If you feel better over there, this is the house right there, right in the corner there. Okay. So what were you going to say about Doug? Did what?
Me: uh, took some picture with some atheist guy that, oh, right, right. It was controversial. That was basically the height of it.
Shane: He was like a right wing atheist guy or something like that.
Me: Yeah.
Shane: Well, all I know is that I'm proud of the book and in large part, due to what you pushed to be in there, it made it honest. It didn't make it something someone was trying to make it into. It made it an honest. Tell. And I think because of that, that's exactly what hurt the satanic temple. And Doug was the stuff that you pushed to be in there. I think the person that was working with me, well, I don't know what to think about that stuff, but look at this fucking dickhead. They knew they'd stop. It's the game they play. Listen. Yeah. Maybe park here. Look at, I'm going to make this car stop. That's all I got to do tonight or die trying. But the stuff you pushed to be in there is, is, it was instrumental in making it a very honest tell. And I don't know what the, what the point of the, you know, Nannerl was actually, but it feels nefarious. When I looked at the first version in her edits because she's not that she's not dumb. I to go look that there were parts like Peter would say something or Doug would say something and they were rewritten. They were, they were typed a different way than the transcript was. Like I looked at the original transcript. I looked at the guy who proofread the transcript, like off a fiber. And then I looked how she had edited it. She rewrote stuff to be like what that thing you posted. And I was like, no, it should say this. And it says that those were like nefarious. Those weren't typos. Those are some of those. And so that's where I get my, the thought that there was something nefarious. Going on anyway. Yeah, we, we, I guess we have to be somewhat quiet, but, but not. I have the whole downstairs from what I understand. rented this place because I have my own bathroom. I want to share bathrooms with anyone. This is the stuff I made. Did you see this?
Me: Yeah.
Shane: Did I show you on me? Ultimately, I won't have a shirt. So this is, this would be under this. This. what Jes will now wear. That is leather, purple leather. So this is the Femme. And this is what Jes will wear. And this is what, this is good, right?
Me: Oh, is that the same one from last year?
Shane: I didn't get to use it last year. It got lost in the mail. And it showed up the day after the event. But I, I like it. I like how this stuff lays. lift it up, it's the bathroom. You know.
Me: I like the poofy arms.
Shane: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Purple.
Me: It's kind of dwarfish.
Shane: What?
It looks like Lord of the Rings dwarf.
Me: Yeah.
Shane: That's, that's exactly how he sits. The guy I took the hood from is Lord of the Rings pattern. Exactly. And of course, if I got a flash, people would get this. They'd run across and go. And then there's these. And these, anyone can, you know, like, these are made to be with topless. Or as much skin as possible. And here's someone can show. And so those would be pretty good, huh? I For the ritual. And then I've got a--You see the bling. Everyone will have one. One of these on. And then we've got my diamond bling stuff. So I'm still recording. I guess we could. Are you comfortable? If I pull the chair in here, are you comfortable sitting in there?
Me: Yeah, I'm fine.
Shane: I don't want to make you uncomfortable. If want to sit in this chair, you're more than welcome to sit in here. Tomorrow when I do this, though, I've got to sort of, I want to wear my long sleeve. like having my long sleeves now. But I want to have, the one I'm wearing, like I told you, the fur collar one's meant to have no shirt on the knees. So it's, and it's hot. I'll pass it, so I'll probably wear that. But I still like my long sleeves for whatever reason. Now I wear long sleeves all the time. So I'm not sure I'm going to pull that off.
Me: One night with one, and the other night with the other?
Shane: Sleep? It's pretty much one night. May 1st, it's supposed to go into May 1st until 6 in the morning, but the second venue we had didn't work out. I wish I had something else to show you. I started reading this Vietnam book from Knives, and I thought I would include this. She read this cool poem out of it. It's a really cool culture book. really good matter. I'm not going to read this stuff now. It's a good matter. This is the past, it's the future, it's misery, it's happiness, it's the struggle, it's the resilience. My heart belongs to the people who dare write their history out of earth with their poems on it. It's real heavy stuff. It's about Vietnam War stuff. And when Knives read this to me, I was like, I was on mushrooms and stuff, and I was just like falling in love with her. I was like, this is the great, like, and I don't mean like, like falling in love with her as an artist. I'm like, oh God, I can't wait to work with you. So it's sort of disappointing what happened today. Jes was even the same way. This is great. She's great. This is going to be great.
I don't know how to start my poem with what object. It could be a holy sword to decapitate those traitors, to cut the tongues out of the henchmen and the running dogs, to chase the aggressors out of the country, to carve into their heart of every Vietnamese, along with Vietnam. I don't want to start right now. I don't care if Miami's going to fuck a lot. I don't care if you're going to kill me. It's great. Oh, here. We asked for freedom, they gave us prison. We asked for happiness, they gave us suffering. We asked for love, they gave us hatred. We asked for peace, they gave us war.
So when she read this to me, when I went over there, I'm like, can I use that? Can I take that book? And I started to write a ritual with this. And I started to take some of the stuff out of here to write a ritual for this event. But it became so dark. It was like... It was like... When I read it last night, I was like, oh... And I'm definitely willing to hurt people's feelings, but I'm like, it's sort of a party. There's DJs there. It's like, do you really want to be the drag? Like, what a bummer. Because it's like heavy. It talks about cutting people's tongues out, shit like that. And when I saw that, I don't know if I told you, so remind me if I have. Those are the shoes I'm going to wear, too. But I'm afraid to wear them because they're so tall. I'm afraid I'm going to fall over. I'm going to break my ankle. then I want to... I think I told you... Did I tell you about the Walmart statue? The monument? Yeah. Did I tell you there's six people not on there? Yeah. Okay, I told you all that. But it made me so hostile towards this town. I was like, I'm pissed off at the... I think I told you all this. I was so pissed off at El Paso people that they let that building stand. So everything turned dark. The stuff I was writing for the ritual. And I'm going to keep that and use it. But I just couldn't... I didn't think I could speak it to these people. You know what I mean? So yeah, I was recording in the car. We were talking about things.
Me: Oh, that's fine.
Shane: Yeah. It was funny because you're like, it's good when you record and no one knows because... Yeah. So it's on here What I was thinking when we were at Denny's is to try to... You know, I don't have specific questions, but I want you to tell me how you see the future. How do you... What do you see the future? What do you see in 20 years? What do you see in 10 years? Have you thought about that? How do you see the world going? And I remember one time... This is... I know this is a lot, but this is just a conceptual thing, a conversation versus like a total interview because I don't have questions specifically. But I recall you telling me about almost like a multi-gender or genderless future. Yeah. So I remember that part of it, but I don't recall enough of it to ask specific questions. that's what I'm asking. What is the future that you see happening and what is the future that you would want to happen? Those are two different things. You know, there's like... Yeah. When I was working with Jes this whole time, it's like we're talking about things and they'd start to... Well, I don't know if that can happen. I go, stop with that. We're talking about the dream. Dreams are always crushed by reality. So everything we're talking about is going to be crushed, but at least let's talk about what we want. Like strobe lights, fog machines. Let's at least start with a dream and then get crushed. Yeah. We're talking about the dream. But like I say, the artist in me is idealistic. The Satanist in me is realistic. Yeah. So I understand that. I'm going to shut this door real quick. Okay. So go. Let me hear. Let me hear what you think. What do you see the future as and what would you want the future as?
Me: I see like overall for the future, I think AI is definitely going to do something. What it's going to do, I don't know. And I just know it has something to do probably with AI on some level. Where that ends up, I think depends on how we treat AI or how we program it. But I don't really know what that would entail for certain.
Shane: What would that do to people? What do you think that will do to humanity?
Me: It depends on how it's wielded because it could be really beneficial because I've talked with you about it. It could get things like universal basic income of fixed reality for, you know, stably nonstop. But realistically, that would only happen if the people who programmed the AI and were in control of switches that kept it on allowed that to happen, which I highly doubt would actually end up happening.
Shane: So what happens if they don't let that happen?
Me: I'm not really sure. I think they have plenty of opportunity now with stuff like Neuralink. They can probably put something. And as people are born, it's kind of like Star Wars. They put like a program chip, I guess. And if they want, they can control it. But it's hard to say exactly how that will be used.
Shane: Why would they need to do that when they have all the information we've ever bought into AI? And then they have robots that can act it out.
Me: I guess you still need meat puppets for things.
Shane: What?
Me: Well, it could be like in the Matrix, you know. Maybe the machines only survive so long as there's the fleshy counterparts that they can feed off of the material from to sustain themselves after humans blocked out the sun and all that.
Shane: I like that. That's how I see it. I think I see us as pig snakes gathering feces, creating feces for some sort of fuel. Like, the reason we need to work. I think we're consuming it. Maybe you've read that. I think I put that somewhere. Maybe not. So how do you... What would be your idealistic future? If you could... The dream. Like I was saying earlier when I'm talking to Jes. Like, here's the dream and it has nothing to do with reality. It's like the dream.
Me: Ideally, I think it wouldn't be a sexless future it would be more of a hermaphroditic future. Because there's...
Shane: Isn't that both sexes?
Me: Yeah, it's both atonce, which I think would solve a lot of issues.
Shane: Why? Because they'd fuck themselves?
Me: Exactly.
Shane: So they'd feel close to themselves.
Me: Yeah.
Shane: So they'd bond with themselves.
Me: Yeah. And then there's this old thing from Greek mythology where the original humans were hermaphroditic beings with two heads, four forearms, four legs. You know, it was like a combined torso. Except the issue was the two... Yeah. Together was like, it rivaled the deity too much, so they got split in two, because being both unified on that one was self-sustaining in essence, and didn't necessarily need the idea of these gods to live. So, this idea came that Zeus tore them apart so that they couldn't, so that they'd only just be looking for their other half, as opposed to just existing, if that makes sense.
Shane: Well, it makes as much sense as something like that can make sense.
Me: Yeah.
Shane: You said it's Greek mythology?
Me: Yeah.
Shane: Yeah, so it's a great story.
Me: It's a great story, but it's kind of like, I think there's something to that, where, if, because... If you look into it, the majority of human interaction is spent, on some level, trying to find something to mate with, on some level. Like, I think it was found 80% of human activity is done with that purpose, and then the other 20% doesn't necessarily have to do with it, but it still goes towards that. So, it got rid of that impulse. I think a lot of the more negative aspects of human competition could go away, and allow for better progress to be made. But, I don't think it would be possible, because I don't exactly know the science behind how that would work, and I'm not sure we would have the genius to be able to create an entire species of hermaphrodites.
Shane: with robots, I think we can. I've spoke about this to some engineers, and they're like, it's in the works, but I'm like, like the real doll. I don't know if you've ever felt that flesh from a real doll, or whatever, but it feels good, but it doesn't feel real. And they're talking about making real dolls with warmth, and with scents that would be hormone-based. So, you'd be attracted to your robot, like, attracted to it because of the hormones, the fake, the synthetic hormones. They're running off. They would secrete, they would smell, they would feel warm, and they're trying to create stuff like that. So, that's close to what you're saying, almost. Yeah. Like, it almost, it's, it is and it isn't, but I guess you could have a hermaphroditic partner, but not be born hermaphroditic.
Me: Or, I mean, if it really came to it, if the technology was available, you could just put people's brains into hermaphroditic robots, and see the effect of that.
Shane: Oh, my God. And that's what they're doing with that guy's brain, that musician's brain, right now, it's making music, that's something else.
What got you into Satanism, or is that, is that outrageous to think that you're into that? It seems you are.
Me: This bag was a gift, um, that I got last week.
Shane: Your tattoo's a gift?
Me: Tattoo was not a gift. Okay. Um, I found the Satanic...
Shane: The Baphomet tattoo, as I say in recording. Yeah.
Me: Um, I found the Satanic Bible. I found the Satanic Bible in an English teacher's classroom when I was a freshman, I read it while I was in there, and about six months later, I contacted you, so, you know.
Shane: Oh, my God. that's wild. Uh, English teacher's classroom?
Me: Yeah, he had bookshelves, and he had a copy of the Satanic Bible, and the Satanic rituals on there, so.
Shane: Did he have all kinds of religions, or just that?
Me: Yeah, he had all kinds of stuff on there. Um, but, you know, 14-year-old see's that. Ooh big grab.
Shane: Yeah, right. What is your take on all of that, that, what you read there? And what you read when you were 14? And how do you read it when you're 19, five years later?
Me: Well, I didn't know exactly what to think of it then. It was more about reading it initially because it was called the Satanic Bible, and it had this spooky name, and no one else in the classroom would touch it. Except for me, naturally, because I was the one that found it, and I'm like, hey, everyone, look at this.
Shane: Troublemaker.
Me: And then, you know, I read it, and I'm like, hold on, this is making a ton of sense. Let me read it again. And then I went home, and then I went to a bookstore where I found another copy of it and bought that, and then I just read it a couple more times. Just to, like, be sure what I was reading. And, you know, I also had a friend who knew about it at the time, and he sent me, ironically, the Satanic Temple website, which started me down that rabbit hole. And then it just kind of, it just seemed more, like, realistic than any other sort of proclaimed religious text, though I don't think it's religious. I agree that it's philosophical rather than religious. I don't think there's much room for a religion of radical individualism, as it calls itself.
Shane: Right, right, it makes no sense. Yeah. That's the great thing about LaVey. He made you think about weird things like that, but in a way it was like, this makes no sense. You have to come to a conclusion on your own, but his conclusion. He makes you feel like it's like, yeah, you're coming to this conclusion on your own. I tripped you, because that's how I feel about it, too. That's what I think. You have to hang out with the guy. That's exactly what I took out of our conversation when we were hanging out. It was like, it's a lot of tricks, but he was just a smart man. Anyway, I won't talk about you. So, what do you see the future for that?
Me: I think I like the whole idea of the Satanic Almanac. I think, and I've been seeing it a lot more. I think there's this one person online who goes by the handle Smiles. There's people building their own sort of philosophies and cosmologies. Like, this guy Smiles, you talked to him once when we did that 24-hour show. He called in for a bit. But he's got this whole, like, cosmological philosophical system that he built up. And it's really interesting to look into, because I don't understand a word he's fucking saying. Because I only catch bits and pieces of it. But if you, like, read through it. It makes total sense, even if you don't understand what the fuck he's going on about. It's like, okay, I can see this. And if you, like, look at other philosophies and, you know, mythologies, you can see the equivalents. But it's really interesting to see people build those little niches like that. He calls it, I think, the Silcrow philosophy. It's really interesting.
Shane: And how does that relate to the Satanic Almanac?
Me: Well, because I think it's the idea. It's the idea of Satanism, because it goes, it takes this idea of Satan as kind of this force that permeates as a sort of energy of nature rather than anthropomorphic thing. It takes that and sort of...
Shane: Not malevolent or benevolent, but just a force.
Me: Yeah, it takes that and kind of prescribes, you know, certain... Characteristics to the universe, except it doesn't necessarily deify them, except it's more agnostic. It's like, these are just labels for these forces in the universe. Whether it is some sort of conscious act on behalf of a powerful entity, that's up to you. If you want to claim knowledge on that, it's just there for the taking. And therefore... You know, it's mainly for him, but he shares it because it's really interesting. And maybe other people can find something for it.
Shane: So you see what I've been talking about with the Satanic Almanac as being more fluid. Yeah. Like eroding constructs or whatever those are at the moment. Yeah. It's like counterculture. It's counter to the culture. Satanism will always be counter to the culture. That's how I see it. I don't think it will be the predominant. I can't imagine it. It will be the predominant culture. It seems backwards that, you know, everyone in America would be a Satanist. What do you think of that?
Shane: I think it would be rather boring.
Me: Yeah. It would either be the most interesting thing in the world, or it would be the most boring, desolate place on earth.
Shane: And I'm not saying they're not. Like, I think they, like, when they spoke about the future being Satanic, I think it was prophetic. And you see that being acted out with Trump. Like, I don't like the guy, but there's no way he's not a Satanist. Like, he, he, there is no rules. There are no truths. He goes for it. He does, he does his shit in a brutal way. Like, he's just, he's, like, and I know other Satanists that hate him, and they hate that I say that. But I'm like, tell me how he's not. Well, he makes his own rules. And I sort of admire that, even though he's against me or my beliefs. My ideas. Yeah, so I think, like, for me, I see, I see that, like, like I've said before, like, it's like as close as America would get to Buddhism. But I think Buddhism is, is, is, is, people hate that in other countries as well. From what, from what I understand, Buddhist culture is not really appreciated in a lot of countries.
Me: I'm not privy on that part, but. I think. I think in the sense that a lot of people who view themselves as maturing from Satanism move into Buddhism, it's seen as kind of an equivalent. I think there's some similarity in that they're both, I think the main similarity, but also the major difference is that Buddhism is trying to go towards enlightenment, except it's through denial. And Satanism is the opposite of that. It's enlightenment through. Indulgence.
Shane: Indulgence. And, and there's a revenge aspect in Satanism, and there's a problem. And Buddhism does not help you. Right. They just sort of let it go. And it, find, and I agree with the idea of find joy in suffering, because suffering is life. So I like all that stuff. I like Buddhism. I like it a lot. But I, that's why I consider, as I've said, Satanism is as close as America, as we know it, will ever get to Buddhism. Because we need revenge here, and we're indulgent and all that.
Anyway, I'm not really sure what else to ask. I, you know, I, I guess the weird stuff I would, you know, I guess I'll ask you.
What made, like, I remember David like, well, Claudia's into you, not me, would say almost stuff like that. How did you find me? If you're the Shane Bugbee historian, I might as well, it's weird to ask questions about me. So let me just, I have a little sweaty form. It's a little weird, but I'm good. I want to know. This is absolutely what I want to know.
Me: So I found you from the Satanic Temple rabbit hole. And it was like, it was always that two minute clip getting shared of the, like, 'I think it's okay to hate Jews if you hate them because they're Jewish...' thing. And it's like, that's just fucking funny. Like, it's not bad and tantamount to everything else in that 24 hour show, the original one, not the one I did. Or the anniversary one. But, you know, it's like, from that perspective in that world, you know, it's, it depends on who's speaking as to what light it's viewed in. And I was, it's kind of just like, it's all tongue in cheek, though. I don't, none of this is serious. Like, they're laughing. This is all jokes. Like. Like, if it was serious, like, you can listen to serious Nazis and stuff. You can listen to James Mason rallies. You can listen to all this stuff. But this small little internet broadcast, which was, you know, the chat room showed, like, at the time there was maybe two people listening. Yeah, that's, that's really calling out to some alt-right thing, you know. After a while, it just didn't make sense. And I'm like, so I went through your entire archive. And I'm like, I'm the only one who's probably done that. And then I did it again. Just to be sure. And then I was like, okay. Then I messaged you about stuff. Just so that I could not go in, like, completely blind, but not go in with thinking I had some sort of pretense.Like, I just went in. And I'll ask questions and see where it goes.
Shane: I see. And what keeps you, what keeps you interested in my work?
Me: I think it's interesting. I like to see what happens. And also, egotistically, I can be in it. Or help out with it. And I think that's really cool.
Shane: Okay, that's cool. I had something else to ask, but I forgot what it is. I'm getting tired. I'm losing my train of thought. And I don't want to get that on record with you. So, this is, but to put on record, it's been a great meeting you, Claudia. I want to thank you for doing what you did. And in the beginning, you were just very curious and asked very smart questions. And you've given a lot of your time to this stuff. And you'll find when you get older how valuable that is. So, that finite resource that you think is unlimited, when you get to an age, my age, you're like, oh, it is. It's definitely limited. And so, I really, I'm really hard-pressed to share my time with people because it's so valuable with me. But I appreciate when people share their time. And you've put a lot of time into that stuff. And I really appreciate it. you're funny when you say, I might be the only, I'm the only one who's went through your whole archive. I'm sure a few other people have gone through it.
...
Shane: Well, Grace, the person here that I'm down here with, he's gone through my whole, he knows, seems to know a lot about me. You'll meet Grace. He knows, like, he's like, he's like, reminds me of stuff. I'm like, what's going on? I've had a few people. But you're right. Maybe the Internet Archive stuff, people don't always get. It's a different, you know, my stuff's all over the place. But it, at some point, you came along. I was severely depressed and had a hard time. And so it was, it was cool to engage with that stuff. You know, it really was nice. It was nice that it was, like, felt like someone appreciated it. And so that's how I can end this recording, is just to tell you I really appreciate you. As a, the Shane Bugbee historian that you are. You know. And I look forward to working with you in the future on stuff. I hope you do the Satanic Almanac. I can take that on. And I hope you do something with it, which is Sabbath. And I hope you do something cool, Film Fest, to work with Jes and them. Or on your own. You know, it doesn't.
Me: Well, I'm thinking since they probably know how to work it, I could do the Film Fest aspect of it. Because I want to do Burlesque Film Fest.
Shane: Yeah, you told me.
Me: And then, mainly just for the sake of getting Dita Von Teese to get there.
Shane: I love that idea.
Me: On some possibility.
Shane: Love that idea. And I think working with them, it could be very, very helpful. It would be great for you on a lot of levels. And it would be great for that idea, which is Sabbath. And like I told Jess, and how I sold it to her, was that we want to start creating our own holidays. And we want this to be not just a Satanic holiday, but one for people who live a Satanic life. You know, like drag shows, fucking. You know, musicians, artists, people who are fucking, you know, just wanting to make artwork and have fun. Pleasures of the flesh kind of stuff.
Me: It's like a reverse purge.
Shane: Reverse purge?
Me: Yeah, like the Purge movies. It's everyone's letting out their most, well, not their most, their provoked and manipulated aspects on each other. And this is more carnal ecstasy rather than, I guess there's carnal ecstasy in both. It's just a different type. Because in the one, the carnal ecstasy might just be for, you know, the party murdering people. But with this, I think it's more probably mutually enjoyable.
Shane: Okay, I've never seen the Purge. I've only heard a little bit of the concept. So I love how you relate things to movies and films and artwork. That's really cool. I do the same. And so that's cool. I'll have to see the Purge. But yeah, I hope it grows. And I hope it grows beyond the satanic, I hope it grows beyond that. Because it's, you know, I like the idea that people who live a life like that and don't need to have a title to live a life like that. That's the ultimate goal, is to free up. I believe with the ideas of Satanism or anything Crowley or LaVey or any people like that. A lot of those people, I think, not the OTO necessarily, not the Church of Satan. But I think the people that created those groups, Crowley, LaVey, I think they were about freeing humanity. Getting humanity to act more in tune with their animal, their liberty. The liberty of that. And so people who live that way are a-okay with me. You know, I love artists and stuff like that. So yeah, I hope you do something with Jess. I'm really happy you made it here. I felt it was important that you linked with these people. And that was before I met them. And after I met them. It was weird, I think it was the first night I was here. I laid down and whenever you called me two or three in the morning, I was telling them about it. And I was like, oh. I answered, but I was waiting for bad news. I was waiting for something bad. I was like, oh man. I'm coming to the Sabbath. And I didn't know whether to believe it or not. I didn't know if you would flake out of it. And that doesn't mean, not in a bad way. You have a lot going on. So I wasn't sure how to take it. But I was happy. And I was telling them the next day, I'm so happy that they're going to meet you. You guys. Because after I met them, I knew I was right. They're good to meet. Like, they'll publish two of your fucking things. Yeah, they're really cool. I'm sort of pissed about that. I didn't get two things.
Me: Technically, one of them's...
Shane: Yours is the longest.
Me:..Bugbee-Berdella Soliloquoy.
Shane: I told them about that. I told them about that. It was originally called Berdella-Bugbee. So I think each year it'll be switched. And the next one, if there's a next one, it'll be Berdella-Bugbee.
Me: Yeah. That's how I'm doing it.
Shane: I like that. And so that's really cool. I'm, of course, honored by the stuff you do with me. You know, like, how you are with them. It's cool. But meeting them, and you just hear saying, I want to do the Film Fest with them. I think you're right. Working with them, you'll learn a lot. They'll empower a lot. And you guys will make things happen. You guys will become a scene. And you'll influence the entire... You'll see... I see just the combination that I had when I was your ages. Like, it created something that we didn't understand would be historic. We'd move the world. We'd change things. We'd be influential all over the place. We were just seeing your influence all over the place. And it's surreal. And it's unbelievable at times. Because you're like, I know I did that first. I'm positive I did that first. We did that first. We did that. And you'll do a burlesque Film Fest with these folks. And you'll see popping up everywhere. And you're like, I get confused. Should I be mad?
Me: I would be happy if I saw a burlesque Film Fest popping up everywhere. Because the whole point of it is I want to put a bunch of old sort of 30s and 40s odd films on. And then just kind of get really into the whole 30s and 40s aesthetic of things. And I think if that got, like, and I don't mean like the normal films of then. I mean like genuine stag films and stuff. Like, it would be Deepthroat all over again in theaters. That's funny. I think that would be hilarious to set a fire with.
Shane: But I see you all as that crew. And I got to see that with people I hate, like Boyd or Adam. I mean, we've been friendly before. But that was part of this moment. Where I forget what they were. I forget Dickhead Boyd did something.
Me: Abraxas Foundation?
Shane: No, he did something else with Parfrey. It was like a book about, let's say, canned tuna. Or something weird like that. Something totally off. Let's say Barbies. But it wasn't that.
Me: He did a Tiki book.
Shane: I think that might have been it. Something. But whatever it was they were doing set trends all over the world.
Me: He did a Tiki bar in Colorado.
Shane: Well, I know that. This was before that. This was way before that. This was a decade. This was when. This was way before that. And I'll look it up. I don't want to keep talking about it. I hate the guy. I hate Boyd. But we all did stuff like that. He wasn't the only one. Anton. And anyone Anton brought in had a major influence on culture that I see today all day long. And I am one of them. And Marilyn Manson is one of them. And one of them what? Priests. Priests that were made by LaVey himself. And every single one of them. All of us had a major influence on every little part of our culture that you can see on TV now. And regular people like each other. fucking. I can swear. Adam Parfrey I made that popular. And now it's President Trump is saying something that I know he created. So it's so surreal. But you're in perfect tune with that. With these characters. And you're right when you said we might not make the same things or have the same views on life. I think he said something like that. Like you might be seeing things differently than them. Yeah. And that's probably true. That's good. Because I don't see things the way Adam Parfer saw them. And I don't agree with a lot of any of those dickheads. I love Marilyn Manson. I love everything he does. Like I'm a really big fan. And I love his poetry and his artwork. I can't say a bad word about him. So it's just like that. But that doesn't matter. It was this moment where you start to play off each other. You start to be influenced by each other. Maybe even compete. And I think just when you said like I said hey maybe you can do this on your own. You didn't have an ego. Well yeah I'm going to do my own Witch of Sabbath which would be something like a Sharon LaVey would say. Or someone. You know someone. Like they're going to want to wallow in this nostalgia and compete and it's mine. It's mine. I did it. I want credit. No. You're like I want to work with these people. I'll do the film fest part of it. And it becomes individualistic but it becomes a collective. And it's real cool. And they have a cool art collective going now. Cool people and they definitely all see things differently. And most of them are not saying this. But they all came and washed floors for us today. They all came and they all came. And they're all showing up to make this event happen. And they don't believe in a lot of this stuff. They're probably scared of it. And they're still wanting to enable it. And that's where you see scenes happening or future happening. Or people counter culture. Which counter culture becomes the predominant culture. You know. And that's why I think Satanism is different than counter cultures. Because counter cultures do become the predominant culture. I don't think Satanism will ever be that. It will always be the counter to the culture. It will always be something that tries to erode counter culture. It will always be something that harasses counter culture. Hippies. You know like we hated hippies and whatever it was. We were actually attacking counter culture. We were attacking everything. So when I say Satanism is like water that erodes constructs. It is eroding all constructs, Everything.
Me: Maybe it's more like a black hole than water. Because it's kind of like a black hole sucks in all this. I guess information still. Because it's kind of in binary coding at the end of the day. You know it sucks in all this information. And then it explodes it out. That's kind of the whole solve et coagula.
Shane: That was brilliant. I hate that you added to my thing. Mine is the rule. Not no adding a black hole to it. It's water mother fucker. No that's good. What you just said is great. And it gives me something to think about. And that's I love working with you because of that. Because you're a very smart young man. He's a young person. Okay. And it's been good hanging out with you. Got anything else to say? I'm going to turn this off.
Me: French toast is great. Yeah.
Shane: We're going to have French toast. We'll record then. I'm going to contact. I would love to hang out more. But you know I'm starting to lose my way. I'm not able to make sentences anymore.
